At the end of chapter seven, Nick leaves Gatsby standing “in the moonlight - watching over nothing” at Tom and Daisy’s house (153). Consider how this scene hearkens back to the eyes of Doctor T.J. Eckleburg that “brood on over the solemn dumping ground” of the valley of ashes (28). Ask a question, share an observation, or respond to a peer’s post on the class discussion page. Include a specific example from the text in your post.
The classic jacket cover for the novel is an art deco painting that was created before the book was finished, and it's alleged that Fitzgerald based the T.J Eckleburg billboard off of the painting. Although Fitzgerald's descriptions are slightly different, both have a "...nonexistent nose"(27).
ReplyDeleteYes! Francis Cugat painted the book cover in 1924, a year before the novel was published. The eyes aren't the only symbol worth considering in the painting. Check it out here: https://www.princeton.edu/~graphicarts/2010/05/celestial_eyes.html
ReplyDeleteI feel like this hearkening back to TJ Eckleburg’s eyes emphasizes the hollowness in Gatsby’s fortune. TJ Eckleburg presides over a desolate expanse of ash-land, and, similarly, though he’s looking at his mansion, Gatsby is “watching over nothing”. Maybe this demonstrates how at this moment, Gatsby has pretty much wreaked his chances at attaining the one “possession” he actually wanted and he has nothing real left.
ReplyDeleteI think both of these scenes representing looking over something that has lost meaning/is empty. When Nick is "“in the moonlight - watching over nothing” at Daisy's house this shows that you can have the extravaganza of Gatsby but still not be happy.
ReplyDeleteIn Chapter 1, Nick saw Gatsby alone, stretching his arms out towards the green light (symbol for Daisy). Now we see Gatsby past the green light, as he had made contact with Daisy, yet failed to achieve his end goal. He watches almost 'pathetically', outside Daisy's house where she eats dinner with her husband. TJ Eckleburg's eyes which I think represent some higher figure, maybe a God, that watches over society and people's moral decisions and are there to cast judgement, in this instance, Gatsby's failed attempt to win back Daisy.
ReplyDeleteGatsby stands alone in the lawn and watches to make sure Tom does not abuse Daisy. Doctor T. J. Eckleburg’s eyes are on a billboard that watches over New York’s “valley of ashes”. The author uses the word “vigil” while referring to both Gatsby and the doctor, which is relevant because it means to stay awake or watch over. Page 132 states, “Over the ashheaps the giant eyes of Doctor T. J. Eckleburg kept their vigil but I perceived, after a moment, that other eyes were regarding us…”. The eyes on the billboard never sleep, are always on guard and provide caution to the people driving by. Similarly, Nick explains how he leaves Gatsby alone to watch Daisy because “...my presence marred the sacredness of the vigil”(156). Gatsby does not sleep until Daisy turns the lights off and wants to protect her.
ReplyDeleteGreat job pointing out Fitzgerald's repeated use of "vigil." The word holds religious connotations too that raise questions about higher powers/morality.
Delete“in the moonlight - watching over nothing” This is showing that Gatsby has gotten to a point where he can’t to much more, he has lost all he has wanted so he is just standing there empty.
ReplyDeleteI think an important part of the quote is that he's watching over "nothing". Gatsby says that he wants to stay to make sure Daisy is safe from Tom, yet when Nick looks into the house, Tom and Daisy are talking calmly in the kitchen. Gatsby is watching over "nothing" because there's nothing to worry about. However, he will not give up. Similarly, Nick describes that the eyes have a "persistent stare" despite the fact they look over the "waste land" (Fitzgerald 24). This links Gatsby and the eyes in that they do not stop, even though there may not be anything to look at.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the chapter, the reader sees Gatsby's hope for a loving relationship with Daisy, drain out of him. As this dream to be with Daisy consumed so much of his life, Gatsby begins to realize that if his dream does not come true, he will lose the direction he once had in his life, and so much of his life working towards being with Daisy will have been wasted. Like Doctor T.J. Eckleburg with, "his eyes, dimmed a little by many paintless days under sun and rain", Gatsby has seen the big picture of his life and where it could possibly be heading.
ReplyDeleteI agree! Fitzgerald uses the eyes in Ch7 to draw attention to Gatsby's position in his relationship with Daisy. "...the giant eyes of Doctor T. J. Eckleburg kept their
Deletevigil but I perceived, after a moment, that other eyes were
regarding us with peculiar intensity from less than twenty
feet away." That second set of eyes was Myrtle. Gatsby and Myrtle are in parallel positions, fighting for a stake in Tom and Daisy's relationship.
Pg 132
DeleteDocter T.J. Eckleburg's eyes were "dimmed a little by many paintless days under sun and rain," (26) and i feel a connection can be made to how Gatsby feels in the moment he is watching over nothing. He has waited 5 years for this one moment when he would reunite with Daisy but the truth is it's much more complicated than he thought.
ReplyDelete"In the moonlight- watching over nothing". This quote describes the part in which Gatsby is helpless and he doesn't know what to do with himself nor the situation he is in. Gatsby is not happy and he is confused in what to do.
ReplyDeleteThe quote of Gatsby looking at "nothing" shows how he has lost the one thing he really loves in life. Gatsby has been obsessed with seeing Daisy for years, the comparison can be made between this and the "brood" of the eyes. Gatsby has wanted this for so long but when Daisy leaves with Tom, he is essentially looking at the waste of years spent pining after a married woman.
ReplyDelete“in the moonlight - watching over nothing”(153). This could be foreshadowing that Gatsby’s relationship with Daisy isn’t going to end well and in the end his future will have nothing to do with Daisy and therefore is watching over nothing.
ReplyDeleteThis is interesting saw we can tell that despite everything Gatsby has done for Daisy, she does not care about him enough to worry about him. And Gatsby doesn't see this because he is trying to win her love and win her back. He is still holding on the illusion of Daisy and the small threads of their relationship, but ultimately he "watches over nothing". Gatsby assumed that happiness would automatically be influenced by his success un materialism. “But his eyes dimmed a little by many paintless days under sun and rain, brood on over the solemn dumping ground”. This shows that Dr TJ Eckleburg is left to stare at everyone that has abandoned their spiritual values in order to achieve material wealth. Everyone has this illusional mindset of the perfect American dream but not everyone is fortunate to obtain it.
DeleteUp to this point, it was as if Gatspy was always stuck in the past, not realizing that things have changed. He assumed that Daisy still loved him, the ways she had in the past, and therefore he persistently tried to prove it. However, at the end of chapter 7, I think Gatspy has finally realized that he is not living in the past, but rather the present. In the end, Gatspy is just “watching over nothing”.
ReplyDeleteGatsby “watching over nothing” shows to me that he has a very spontaneous imagination of where he sees himself and Daisy. It’s like he’s in his own world and the only people living in it is him and Daisy.
ReplyDeleteThe "nothing" in "watching over nothing" could signify that his relationship with Daisy won't turn into anything. He had planned on Daisy and Tom separating seamlessly but Daisy is more conflicted. However, the "nothing" could also represent the relationship between Tom and Daisy being devoid of feeling, considering Nick's observation that the two are not happy or unhappy.
ReplyDeleteEvan Bak
In both scenes there is a sense of emptiness. Gatsby has possibly lost Daisy forever and can "watches over nothing", and TJ Eckelburg has no real purpose as the sign is wearing down. Both, though extravagant and a huge presence in people's lives, have no real meaning anymore.
ReplyDeleteIn the two scenes they are watching over nothing. There is a sense that they are watching something that is already gone. When it came down to it, Daisy had a very difficult time choosing between Tom and Gatsby. Ultimately she was unable to and Gatsby was unable to accept that she was in love with Tom at one point. I think him "watching over nothing" signifies that reality has finally hit him, no more living in their own little bubble, and their relationship might not have a future.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel, Gatsby had seemed to be living in the past. He still believed Daisy would still be in love with him even though so much time had passed. Gatsby “watching over nothing” is him no in the present realizing he does not have a lot because he focused so much in the past.
ReplyDeleteThey are similar in that both are looking over something that had potential. Doctor T. J. Eckleburg put up his billboard to "fatten his practice in the borough of Queens" (26), but the area turned into a dumping ground. Gatsby stayed at Tom's place in the hopes that he can earn Daisy back but it is apparent that it will not happen.
ReplyDeleteI think that these scenes where Gatsby is "watching over nothing" demonstrates his fleeting hope that Daisy will choose him over Tom. He is beginning to realize that Daisy will never choose him over Tom, and therefore all his hopes of being with her are diminishing right before his eyes. He begins to realize that even though he spent many years waiting for Daisy, she will not come back to him, and all that he had hoped for is disappearing.
ReplyDeleteI think that these scenes represent looking at something that has changed. I think that Gatsby “in the moonlight - watching nothing” can represent how Gatsby believes there are no real feelings between Daisy and Tom or that Gatsby and Daisy no longer have anything.
ReplyDeleteThe eyes of Doctor T.J. Eckleburg watch over a "waste land." The same way that Doctor T.J. Eckleburg continuously watches something that is essentially not worth all that effort (because it is a waste land), Gatsby stands in front of Daisy's house looking in, "watching over nothing." There is essentially nothing for Gatsby to watch over, because Daisy and Tom are just calmly together, yet he can't take his eyes off of them.
ReplyDelete"the giant eyes of Doctor T.J. Eckleburg [keep] their vigil" over the valley of ashes"(124). This quote to me is very interesting because i think it offers a theory that the eyes symbolize higher powers within the book, maybe God or someone watching over the society as a whole.
ReplyDeleteThe eyes in both of these cases are an indication of someone stuck in the past. When looking at the billboard, Nick thinks that whoever left it there must have "...sank down himself into eternal blindness, or forgot them and moved away."(26), much in the way that Daisy has forgotten and moved on from Gatsby. Gatsby remains, watching and waiting for Daisy, but she has left him behind just as the doctor left his face up on a billboard, forgotten and unimportant.
ReplyDeleteWhile talking about "the eyes of Doctor T. J. EckleburgBut", the eyes watching over the valley of ashes, the text also says, "his eyes, dimmed a little by many paintless days under sun and rain". And I feel like when using the same motif for Gatsby when Nick leaves him behind standing “in the moonlight - watching over nothing” at Tom and Daisy’s house, it was used to get the same feel, maybe Gatsby is realizing that his life is "paintless" even with Daisy back. - Zoe Rigoulot
ReplyDeleteI believe similar to grimness of Eckleburg Gatsby realizes that his relationship with Daisy is one that will never have a happy ending. He is "watching over nothing" because he refuses to acknowledge that his love for Daisy will go nowhere, and he forces himself to not see the blatant facts that support the reality of the situation. In this case he is near Tom and Daisy's house yet sees nothing because if he were to then it would be clear that the life he desires is that of a fantasy.
ReplyDelete- Seiyoung Jang
“in the moonlight - watching over nothing”(153). I feel like this signifies the final breaking point of Gatsby's dream of being with Daisy. He had fantasized about being with Daisy for years and he has finally realized that Daisy will never choose him over Tom. This portrayal of Gatsby makes him appear to be defeated.
ReplyDeleteT.J.'s eyes foreshadow Gatsby's demise through color themes. The eyes are blue, looking out through a pair of yellow spectacles at the grey wasteland of the valley of ashes. Blue is used most often in the novel to color Gatsby, with his garden and servants' livery being described as blue. The color blue tracks his wealth and rise to power beginning with the blue jacket purchased for him by Dan Cody when he joined him on his yacht. The color yellow represents Daisy and hints at Gatsby's downfall as Daisy is described as a "golden girl"(128) and Gatsby's car is yellow. Grey obviously stands for desolation and the grisly underbelly of capitalism what with the valley of ashes. T.J.'s eyes are supposed to imply that if you look through both the blue and yellow lenses of Gatsby and Daisy, wealth and power and the inevitable doom they bring, then you can foresee the misfortune that lies ahead for the two of them. That's about it for Eckleberg but it's also interesting to look at what the use of the color green in the novel, the combination of blue and yellow, representing Gatsby's infatuation with Daisy. There are three notable instances of green imagery in the book. The light at the end of the dock of course represents Gatsby's love for Daisy because it's the literal beacon guiding him towards her. The seats of his car are made of green leather, and the first time the two of them are alone together in the car is the time when they run Myrtle over. The most intriguing and confounding use of the color green is the green jersey Gatsby wears when he meets Dan Cody on the yacht. I'm still not entirely clear on the meaning of this but it strikes me as interesting how he trades in this green jersey for the blue jacket once he commits himself to a life of wealth with Cody. It's as though he lost the yellow when he became a greedy cog and spends the rest of his life trying to get it back by pursuing Daisy.
ReplyDeleteA brilliant unpacking of the novel's color symbolism! Thank you for sharing. Be on the lookout for Fitzgerald's use of pink/rose/red in chapter 8.
DeleteIn the Gatsby quote you can tell by his wording that he's almost at a loss for words and doesn't know what his next step will be in his situation with daisy knowing how confusing their relationship can be.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of chapter 7, Nick notes that Gatsby is “watching over nothing” because all Gatsby has ever wanted and created for himself was built on the desire and illusion of the love he had for Daisy. He was living in the past and believed that Daisy still loves him and hopes she will choose him over Tom. However, overseeing the whole situation, Nick understands that Daisy will never choose Gatsby over Tom and she doesn’t need Gatsby to protect her from Tom. All that Gatsby has done out of the love for Daisy is ultimately “nothing.”
ReplyDeleteSorry, I don’t know why but when I was typing this it started only allowing me to use all capitalization so the end of the comment it’s in all caps.
ReplyDeleteThese observations connect to an earlier description of Tom. Just as Gatsby and the dr stand before nothingness, Toms similar fate this was foreshadowed, “He looked around him wildly, as if the past were lurking here in the shadow of his house, just out of reach of his hand“ It was at this moment HE REALIZED THAT HIS WORLD WAS SLIPPING OUT OF HIS CONTROL, IT WAS NOW BASED OFF OF WHAT OTHERS DECIDED TO DO RATHER THAN HIS OWN DECISIONS JUST AS IT WAS WHEN THE DR STOOD BEFORE THE ASHES OR RUINS OF LIFE.
Similar to how Dr. Eckleburg stares over the Valley of Ashes, Gatsby is described at staring at “nothing”(Daisy’s house). While Daisy and Tom’s house/the green light was a beacon of hope for Gatsby at the beginning of the novel, it has now become an unachievable goal. While Daisy is still there, Gatsby is looking at “nothing” because he is ultimately unable to rewrite his history with her.
ReplyDeleteTowards the end of chapter seven, Gatsby begins to understand that he’s losing his grip on Daisy. To maintain his hopes, the only way is to watch over her, “I’m just going to wait here and see if he tries to bother her about that unpleasantness this afternoon”. Much like Dr. Eckleburg gazing over the Valley of Ashes, there’s a hint of sadness, and Gatsby can only stare at Daisy from afar.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, and it's almost as if Gatsby has to prove to himself that he and Daisy still love each other. He needs to convince himself that he is the good guy and that he is her protector, because in reality, he is in love with an image from his past. Meanwhile, he insists that Daisy tell Tom that she never loved Tom, in order to assert to himself the legitimacy of their feelings.
DeleteBoth the eyes of Doctor T.J. Eckleburg and Gatsby seem to be watching over a type of "solemn dumping ground.” The "nothingness" that Gatsby watches over bears an eerie resemblance to the wasteland that T.J. Eckleburg watches over, as both symbolize broken dreams and wasted hopes. Even after the tragedy of Myrtle's demise, the "eyes of Doctor T. J. Eckleburg which had just emerged pale and enormous from the dissolving night" (pg. 170), symbolizing the tired watch of both Gatsby and Doctor Eckleburg over shattered dreams and tragedy.
ReplyDeleteDr. Eckleburg: "But his eyes, dimmed a little by many paintless days under sun and rain, brood on over the solemn dumping ground" (chapter 2)
ReplyDeleteGatsby: "standing there in the moonlight--watching over nothing" (chapter 7)
Both situations involve someone/thing looking over something else that lacks meaning, as a dumping ground is for dumping trash in, and Tom and Daisy reconciling ruins Gatsby's chances of getting Daisy. In both situations, the one that looks does so for a long time (as the eyes of Eckleburg always stare at the valley of ashes, and Gatsby probably looks at Tom and Daisy for a long time during the night).
“in the moonlight - watching over nothing”(153). This line is interesting to me because it's almost a realization that everything Gatsby had wanted with Daisy, the life he wanted, was not really possible. I don't think nothing means what he felt was invalid, but more it was unrealistic to hope for that after the time spent apart.
ReplyDelete"...a certain desolate area of land. This is a valley of ashes - a fantastic farm where ashes grow like wheat..." (pg. 23). The first time Dr. Eckleburg is referenced, it is as a guardian, or sentinel, simply observing the misery that divides the worlds of wealth and squalor. He is impartial, but cannot tear his eyes away (mostly because he is a billboard). This is directly mirrored in Gatsby's behavior after the events of chapter 7. He knows that everything is more or less ruined for him, but he cannot tear himself away from the "beautiful desolation" that he has had a hand in causing.
ReplyDeleteI think an interesting description that would be interesting to make a connection to Gatsby with is "They look out of no face, instead, from a pair of enormous yellow spectacles which pass over a non-existent nose"(28). Maybe we're meant to compare the fact that Dr TJ Eckleburg's eyes are watching out of no face to Gatsby. Maybe it indicates an emptiness and hollowness that he feels. He basically coordinated this big plan, adopting customs and habituating to behaviors that weren't his own, for example hosting opulent mansion parties, just to impress and get with Daisy, only for it not to work out the way he had hoped.
ReplyDelete-Jona Lehmann
Delete"Watching over nothing" reminds me of how Gatsby watched the green light on Daisy's dock and how he is now waiting to see if "...she's going to turn the light out and on again"(152). Gatsby puts Daisy on a pedestal like she's a possession that deems his own importance, he only feels validation from her and he won't ever be satisfied because the person hes "in love with" doesn't exist.
ReplyDeleteThe two sections of the novels share the notion of a lost purpose as Gatsby feels as though hes complete lost Daisy and is lacking anything to look over "watching nothing" and how the eyes and the sign loses it purpose as it wears down and is watching nothings, instead of "watching nothing".
ReplyDeleteThe eyes in both refer to Tom and his relationships; the first time we see the billboard is when Tom goes to visit Myrtle, and the time in chapter 7 is when Nick leaves Gatsby to watch over Daisy. Both scenes represent Tom's brashness and disregard for Daisy as well as the contrast between George Wilson and Gatsby. In the scene with Eckleburg, Tom remarks on how ignorant George Wilson is about his affair with Myrtle, while Gatsby waits well into the night to watch over Daisy, highlighting Gatsby's kinder yet protective nature.
ReplyDelete-Oliver
Delete