Thank you for all of your thoughtful questions, comments, and connections about Huck's crisis of conscience!
Tuesday, April 7, 2020
Phase 2, Week 1, day 2
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Admirable Hooks
A not-so-great hook. Visit https://thisibelieve.org/youth/ and look at the various hooks (e.g., first sentences or paragraphs) of the...
T.S. Eliot makes a really good point when he talks about the lens in which Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer are seen through. In Tom Sawyer, we see Tom through the perspective of society, while in Huck Finn, we are watching the world through Huck's eyes. I also like how he brings up that Huck has no bias at all in terms of seeing the world. He sees the world as it is, and that is what makes him solitary.
ReplyDeleteI thought it interesting that Eliot said Twain wrote Huck Finn without knowing where it was going. I also liked how Eliot described Huck as an observer of the world with no judgement, just letting the world judge itself. I thought that was very interesting and accurate, Huck never himself tries to change society or who they judge, he just chooses to not follow along with society.
ReplyDeleteI disagreed with Eliot’s view of Huck as being a passive observer. Huck, just like any other character, made decisions and affected those around him, the best example being when he decided to not give Jim back to Miss Watson. I think that the power of Huck’s character is best shown in the scenes where he makes conscious choices, not the scenes where he merely observes.
ReplyDeleteI think the point that T.S Elliot made about the river, and how much power the river had in determining the fate of Jim and Huck. The river caused them to miss Cairo and it also caused them to meet the King and the Duke. Although I still think that the river represents freedom, because it allowed both Huck and Jim to escape from their past lives. the river gives them hope for the possibility of a better future.
ReplyDeleteI thought that Eliot’s comments about the contrast between Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn, as novels and as characters, with Tom being a social person and a book where you feel like you are watching Tom, whereas Huck is more alone and an observer, and in his book you are seeing things through his point of view.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting and almost funny that Eliot described Mark Twain as a man who never became fully mature. Eliot explained that even the adult side of him was boyish and young, and that the child in him, Huck Finn, was more of an adult.
ReplyDeleteI think that it was interesting how T.S Elliot portrayed Huck as a passive observer because as discussed in class there have been many times when Huck is put into a tough situation and he has made the best decision when he is making choices that fit his moral values.
ReplyDeleteSome great ideas here! Keep 'em coming. Something to consider w/r/t Eliot's view of Huck as a passive observer: Huck becomes maddeningly passive from chapters 32 on.
ReplyDeleteI found Eliot's comment about Twain's use of dialect in Huck Finn very interesting. Similar to Eliot, I found this very effective and I have noticed it throughout the novel thus far. I also thought it was more effective than Dickens's use of dialect in Great Expectations. The use of a more spoken tone in Huck Finn seems natural, while I thought it was inconsistent and sometimes overdone in Great Expectations.
ReplyDeleteTS Eliot says Huck is passive and accepts the world for what it is which gives him a clear view of reality. I believe this makes him a good character to tell a story through because it gives the reader choice on how they feel about certain events instead of being pressured to feel a certain way.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a really good point when Eliot said that Huck is the "passive observer of men and events". i hadn't before thought about him in that way but it does ring very true to the book. I also enjoyed how Eliot explained that Huck gave the book "style" while the river gives the book its form. I think that this book is very interesting to read because Huck is so juvenile that it is very cool to see his thoughts and conscience as the book progresses.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting how Twain contrasted Huck and Tom as being, respectively, the passive and active lenses of their stories. Tom is so imaginative and willing to act on his thoughts that he meddles far too much in others’ lives. On the other hand, Huck is so passive that despite his moral struggle and eventual crisis of conscience, he never really takes action to help or hurt Jim. He simply follows where the river takes them, not doing anything until he really has to.
ReplyDeleteI think it was interesting when Eliot said “Huck Finn must come from nowhere and be bound for nowhere” and that a tragic ending would’ve lead to people pitying Huck and that would diminish the message of the book.
ReplyDeleteT.S. Eliot made an interesting point as he states how the Grangerfords and Shepherdsons feud could not have been told from any other perspective than Huck’s. The importance of the narrator is shown throughout the story as it provides an insight to Huck’s inner thoughts and feelings. This allows the reader to connect with Huck while viewing the story from his point of view and see his growth/development.
ReplyDeleteI thought an interesting point was brought up with Tom Sawyer, when T.S. Eliot says, "Readers sometimes deplore the fact that the story descends to the level of Tom Sawyer from the moment that Tom himself re-appears... But it is right that the mood of the end of the book should bring us back to that of the beginning. Or, if this was not the right ending for the book, what ending would have been right?" and offers up this question.
ReplyDeleteMy question is that, is there such thing as the “right ending” to a book? When I think about it, I feel that their are infinite endings that can be brought up in a book. However, only a few of those endings tend to make sense. It’s almost bizarre to me that someone could say “that isn’t the right ending to that book” when obviously the result of the novel or any novel could’ve been different.
ReplyDeleteThe ending is subjective. you’re right, why should I care what the author thinks should happen at the end. Part of me feels that this is the authors work and I want to agree with him. But I don’t want to agree with him enough to justify throwing away my conscious. If it seems suitable to me and results in me feeling complete, that’s great; If it leaves me feeling dissatisfied than it was not a good ending.
Delete“...and yet, in his acceptance of his world and of what it does to him and others, he is more powerful than his world, because he is more aware than any other person in it”. I agree with T.S Eliot’s comment about Huck’s awareness. It seems that he is able to see society for what it really is and the injustice that comes with it. Huck, instead of seeing the world through colors, he chooses to see it through how people act. He is able to let his heart guide him and it shows through when he decides to go find Jim and rescue him from slavery even if society repeatedly tells him that Jim’s role is to be a slave forever.
ReplyDeleteI found this quote quite interesting on page 284. “...people that’s always the most anxious for to hang a nigger that hain’t done just right is always the very ones that ain’t the most anxious to pay for him when they’ve got their satisfaction out of him”(284) They use this mechanism to boost their self esteem because it’s just another way in which to feel superior or justify their actions when they have done wrong themselves. Furthermore, when they’re proved wrong by a person of “color”, they don’t want to give them their fair share because that means lessening the gap in status between them and the slave. In other words, their biased beliefs leads the, to practice unfair actions regardless of the slaves character or behavior.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, I was left wondering Who killed Huck’s father? The judge? if so, was it right to strip Huck of his right to have a father simply because he was a bad father?
Why is the doctor able to stand up for Jim, without being questioned or teased? Is this due to his apparent high education or status?
T.S. Eliot points out that unlike Tom Sawyer who "has the imagination of a lively boy who has read a good deal of romantic fiction... [Huck] has, instead, vision. He sees the real world; and he does not judge it—he allows it to judge itself." Tom and Huck are almost opposites, as Tom uses his imagination to make his life more exciting while Huck chooses to view the world for as it is. This allows Huck to understand the world more than Tom. T.S. Eliot further argues that Huck is the most prominent character in the novel because while others try to mold their views of the world according to their whims, Huck lets the world be and is aware of what’s actually happening.
ReplyDeleteI think Huck's awareness of society is very interesting and agree with T.S. Elliot's statement of Huck being "more powerful than his world, because he is more aware than any other person in it”. Huck believes that slavery is wrong and wants to save Jim, but says “All right, then, I’ll go to hell.” when he decides to do so. Huck thinks saving Jim is morally correct but at the same time knows it goes against society.
ReplyDeleteI thought that T.S Elliot's point about the river being whatever the Huck is. Huck is at his true self while he is on the river, isolated from society. As the river comes to the shore, it loses it's core identity as the river, similar to how Huck loses himself to the norms of society while he is on land.
ReplyDeleteI found the ending of Huckleberry Finn interesting and entertaining, but I didn't understand why Mark Twain wanted to revert back to the beginning of the book and bring Tom back. It was just a repetition and only seems to bring the book down.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was very interesting when TS Eliot said, “... in [Huck’s] acceptance of his world and of what it does to him and others, he is more powerful than his world, because he is more aware than any other person in it”. Ultimately, even though Huck is a passive observer as Eliot describes, it allows him to be more objective. He notices things that other people fail to see because they are blinded by their personal biases. Huck being a passive observer is both a weakness and a great strength that can come in very handy.
ReplyDeleteI found how T.S. Eliot analyzed how the river giving the book form to be really interesting and I think that's an interesting connection to how Huck was passive towards the end of the story allowing him to go wherever the river takes him. Additionally, Huck's passivity allowed the theme of judgement and society to be much more significant and T.S. touches on that when he says, "He sees the real world; and he does not judge it—he allows it to judge itself."
ReplyDeleteAn interesting point T.S Eliot made was the amount of power Mark Twain gave the river, he mentioned how they could have ended up free in Cairo, which is freedom for JIm but instead the river decided to lead them further south. Eliot puts in nicely, "We come to understand the River by seeing it through the eyes of the Boy; but the Boy is also the spirit of the River."
ReplyDeleteEliot's point about Huck being an observer was very interesting to me. In the story Huck is the protagonist, but his moral development comes from observation mostly, whereas protagonists in other novels tend to guide their own story in terms of what they can control. His observations of the actions of the Duke and Dauphin guide much of his development, and his first big action that furthered his moral development was his decision to rescue Jim. There were no other influences and he concluded that he would "give his life" to free Jim. Even after Tom arrives at the Phelps farm Huck observes Tom making an unnecessary show in rescuing Jim, and isn't really the one making the decisions.
ReplyDelete-Evan Bak
DeleteI thought this point was really interesting: “For Huckleberry Finn, neither a tragic nor a happy ending would be suitable...Huck Finn must come from nowhere and be bound for nowhere.” I guess I always knew this in the back of my head, but reading it really made me realize it more clearly. Therefore I think it makes sense that a happy ending for Huck wouldn’t be suitable, even though that’s what I would have hoped.
ReplyDelete"His is not the independence of the typical or symbolic “American Pioneer," but the independence of the vagabond. " TS Elliots interpretation of the ending seems to be that Huck was the embodiment of true freedom, a "vagabond". While I agree that Huck is supposed to be an enigma and that he "must come from nowhere and be bound for nowhere", I'm not sure I agree that the ending is cohesive with the themes of the previous chapters. By deciding to escape from civilization out into the west, Huck is undoing the growth he has had. He has come to realize the injustice of slavery yet his last act in the novel is to pursue "manifest destiny" and invade Native American lands? Hucks quest throughout the novel has given him the knowledge to challenge societal expectations but it seems he regressed at the end. It seems like a contradiction.
ReplyDelete-Camille Sandage
DeleteWhat interested me in T. S. Eliot's writing was his perspective of Huck as a character. According to Eliot, Huck, "sees the real world; and he does not judge it—he allows it to judge itself." This is what allows the reader to examine and analyze the events of the novel through their own perspective. Because Huck is so aware, but also nonjudgemental, the reader is perceiving the events of the novel just as they happen, but still with consideration towards how society has affected them. Huck's awareness provides readers with questions about society but his lack of judgement also allows the reader to answer the questions for themselves.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting how Eliot asserts that the strange ending fits the story best, saying that like Huck and the river, it shouldn’t have a clear or perfect ending...But I wonder if the ending has anything to do with how Twain wrote the book. Like Tilly said, he wrote it with no idea for what would happen later, so maybe he got himself up a creek with his plot and the awkward ending was the only way to somehow end it.
ReplyDeleteT.S. Eliot mentions that Huck is a passive observer, and I found that interesting because it's something I hadn't noticed before, but something I now agree with. Huck definitely has his moments when he actively interferes and makes decisions, but I do think that he is a passive observer of the world. Although, I prefer the times when he actually make decisions, because I find his character more powerful when he isn't as passive.
ReplyDeleteI thought that it was interesting that Eliot considered Huck to be a passive observer. While at times Huck is somewhat passive (ie. when he lived with the Grangerfords), he is still very much capable of thinking for himself. For example, the moment when he decides he will save Jim from slavery demonstrates how he is willing to overcome societal norms do what he believes to be right.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that Huck is a relatively unbiased observer of events who is detached from society and that Eliot says that no conventional ending to a story is suitable for Huck Finn; Huck is the character in the novel who is the most aware of reality, and real life often cannot be described with a clear/satisfying beginning, end, or purpose, unlike conventional stories that most people enjoy, so it is fitting for the novel Huck Finn to not be like those conventional stories (but to be on a different level).
ReplyDeleteI have very mixed thoughts on T.S. Eliot's acceptance of the ending. I, for one, believe the almost cyclical nature of the book is a reflection on how life and human progression is not a linear motion. The last chapter's of the novel sees Jim, Huck, and Tom revert to their original roles. Despite Huck's progress in becoming more accepting of Jim, it is unclear whether Huck believes Jim to be an exception to an race he believes to be naturally inferior or that Huck has come to accept African American. This is almost too realistic as people tend to not flip their views so easily. It is true, as Eliot mentioned, that Huck is a passive and critical observer of society, and so it makes a lot of sense that Huck would not make a generalizing statement about how all slave owners are terrible people at the end. Huck is perhaps one of the most nuanced and realistic characters that I have come across in literature. However, what is most disappointing is Tom's role in the novel. In such a mature novel, the childish and foolish antics of Tom seem widely out of place and tonally inconsistent. If Huck's role is to let society be judged for its actions, then it seems backwards to see Tom rewarded for his subterfuge. Even the wound he receives is spun in a positive light. Twain's intention of using Tom's selfish aid as a foil to Huck's genuine care for Jim makes sense and is a fantastic idea in theory. However, without any major repercussions, the contrast feel unsatisfying. Perhaps this is Twain's way of making the end even more ambiguous, as he does not show a correct or incorrect side. This leads into the best part of Huck Finn in my opinion. Because Huck Finn is so nuanced, the ending, which has several unsatisfying elements, can be explained by the fact that life very rarely has a satisfying conclusion where one side is clearly right. Had this been any other novel, it would have been easier to call out the "flaws" of the ending, yet Twain's message moral ambiguity essentially saves the ending.
ReplyDelete-Seiyoung Jang
Deletethats wassup
DeleteI thought it was interesting how Eliot compared the family situations of thew two opposing characters, as that they very much are. Tom, whilst an Orphan, still has his aunt and other relatives who care for him. Huck, on the other hand, has nobody like that. His father forcibly isolates him and he has no real connection to his foster family. The only thing the two opposing personalities share is a friendship, but their outlooks show two very different people. Tom is somewhat naive and adventurous, whereas Huck has a mature outlook on life and acts much more like an adult due to his situation.
ReplyDelete-Cameron Gurwell
Throughout reading the poem and Huck Berry Finn I found it interesting that Tom was very naive meanwhile Huck kept a lookout approach towards Tom and the other things in life.
ReplyDelete--Jack Hayes
I don’t mind how he view the novel but his thinking was convoluted. At the begging of the review he decides that he is going to write about how the novel affected him but proceeds to write an entire second page trying to guess what Twain’s state of mind is. It is embarrassing to attempt to figure out what someone else is thinking and publish a paper on it. Talk about how it relates to you, if I wanted to speculate Twain’s thoughts I’d read another one of his books. He finally does this on the last 2 pages of the review. After that it wasn’t bad.
ReplyDeleteBarrett
I think that the fact that the river guides this book allows for Huck's lack of judgement. He realizes that he doesn't have a place on land where he stops, his place is on the river. Without the river to guide him, he would be forced to judge the world on land. With a larger goal, to keep moving on the river, he sees his adventures on land as insignificant and can move past judgement. For example, he is kind to Tom by going along with his foolish plans to free Jim but also realizes that they are foolish because they are just a reflection of books that Tom has read. Because this adventure to free Jim is important to Huck but just part of his overall journey down the river, he can do what he needs to without judgement to move back to his journey.
ReplyDeletehow do hucks morals compare in the last chapter vs the first chapter, does this show the development of him as a character throughout the novel?
ReplyDeleteEliot compares the narrative perspective of Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn, something I found myself doing while reading the novel. He mentions that our ability to see Huck's world through his own eyes gives him a greater maturity than the boyish ignorance of Tom Sawyer. I believe this is an extremely accurate analysis of the relationship between the two characters. Tom exists as a cleaner and more innocent foil to Huck, much like Huck existed solely as a comparative youth to Tom in his own story. To me, it seems like Tom's inclusion in Huckleberry Finn is his reward for simply existing in that world. He was not a necessary inclusion, he contributes only to the forward motion in the plot because of the deliberate decision to include him. However, that does not necessarily mean that Tom's place in Huck's novel was a mistake. As Eliot stated, his service as a foil serves to mask the clear disintegration of Huck's narrative structure, and the focus on Tom's antics allows Huck to quietly slip away from the reader's attention, in the way he and Mark Twain would most obviously have wanted.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBefore reading T.S. Eliot's critic, I had never noticed that Huck is a passive observer. Though there are times where Huck actively interferes and makes decisions, in general, I agree with Eliot, as I now see how he is a passive observer of the world. I believe that Huck is the someone who is most aware of reality, and the power of his character is best shown in the scenes where he makes conscious choices as a result, not the scenes where he merely observes.
ReplyDeleteEliot calls out Huck as an unbiased and passive observer. Its interesting and very accurate about Huck on how he never tries to change society or who they judge, he just chooses to not follow along with the society. But also I think he’s just uncertain, he knows what’s right but too unsure whether if he should follow his heart and change people’s thinking.
ReplyDeleteT.S Eliot describes Huck’s vision as “He sees the real world; and he does not judge it—he allows it to judge itself.” I think this is interesting and connects to the idea of Huck being a more passive character because in the quote Eliot is describing that Huck does not interfere with his actions he simply watches the world and how it unfolds.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Mark Twain has had very popular and detailed books before, I believe that T.S Eliot is right about this being Twain's most interesting book and very captivating for readers. The book takes you on a ride and story through someones life and that level of interest translates into more people falling into reading it and being his most well known book to date.
ReplyDeleteI thought that is was interesting to see how maturity and the point of view mattered so much, and how Huck was less judgmental and that the readers just "see the world through his eyes", how he is less guided by imagination and how he just "sees the real world; and he does not jugde it - he allows it to judge itself".
ReplyDelete- zoe rigoulot
DeleteI thought it was interesting how T.S Eliot concluded both Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer as characters of Mark Twain’s own thoughts and behavior. Although I don’t particularly agree, I can understand that Twain could’ve created both characters to demonstrate how their differences will lead to consequences. In a way, proving to himself that his past mindset and more aware mindset would’ve never been able to reach a common ground.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed hearing Eliot's thoughts on the role of the river throughout the novel. It controls Huck and Jim's voyage and story, leading them to new adventures and causing them to miss others, embodying the invisible force of fate that we all experience in our own lives. Twain allows us to understand the power of chance and destiny by making us acquaintances with this force.
ReplyDeleteThis lies somewhat outside of the text but it’s interesting how Elliot's parents didn’t want him reading Huck Finn, “The opinion of my parents that it was a book unsuitable for boys left me”. They’re reasoning was about him picking up bad habits with tobacco, but today there’s a fear of children reading the book due to the racist society it depicts.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that he considers Huck Finn to be a "far more convincing indictment of slavery" than Uncle Tom's Cabin due to Huck's role as a passive viewer of many of the events in the novel. Calling Huck a "passive" viewer seems incorrect. While it is true that Huck's presence in the novel is to a great extent mental, he doesn't seem so passive. He grapples with the concept of slavery constantly and always seems to come just left of turning Jim in and living like the rest of the white people at the time. He befriends several groups of white people who are hostile to black people including the Duke/Dauphin and the Grangerfords, and he struggles to empathize with Jim, playing pranks on him and feeling remorse for not turning him in as a runaway. The book is against slavery in the charming way that 19th century books written by white men can be against slavery, but Huck's passiveness throughout the book seems to cloud the message and bring him closer to white authorities more than it shows the faults of racism.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Eliot's views on Huck Finn being a more convincing indictment of slavery than books that are more explicit about the trauma, I think it's a fair assessment. The degree to which one should be preachy and moralistic versus the degree to which one should take into account the notions and ideas that the general public already has is a fundamental question of activism. I think that while a less analytical reader can read the story for pure entertainment, it can also be read as a condemnation of slavery but in terms that the average white reader in the late 1800's might find funny. The satire and balance between Huck being passive and impassive serve as a spoonful of sugar to help the abolitionism go down. And yes, maybe if you stop reading the book halfway through you won't get the message but by the end it's pretty clear that Huck is the most enlightened of all the characters, and if Huck humanizes and empathizes with others, then Twain basically implies that you are less than enlightened if you don't agree with him. The distinction between Huck Finn and other anti slavery books is that the implication is subtle, and therefore less repellent.
ReplyDelete- Jona Lehmann
Delete"Huck in fact would be incomplete without Jim, who is almost as notable a creation as Huck himself. Huck is the passive observer of men and events, Jim the submissive sufferer from them; and they are equal in dignity".
ReplyDeleteI had not thought of this sentiment but I do now notice it. Throughout the novel, from playing with Tom, to journeying with the Duke and the Dauphin Huck questions the actions of others in his own head but does not act against them.
Oliver
Delete" Huck is passive and impassive, apparently always the victim of events; and yet, in his acceptance of his world and of what it does to him and others, he is more powerful than his world, because he is more aware than any other person in it."(3)
ReplyDeleteHuck is, in a way a very morally malleable character, he is not yet firmly standing in his ideas of morality, but forced to make decisions on his imperfect foundation nonetheless. This is a coming of age story. Huck is afraid of action because he's aware that he's unsure of right and wrong, which is why he becomes such a good, nonjudgemental observer, that we can look through to find twains satire
-Alicia
barrett - I have not read uncle toms cabin, so I can’t argue with her beliefs that it should be highly regarded. But, I have read huck Finn and I liked it. She criticizes the novel for holding back in a sense. However, it is meant for kids; it’s meant to be a step forward food for the further pursuit of knowledge. I’d go as far to say that this is the purpose of all modern literature. These books are not the Bible and they are not the word of god. Self respecting books should make you think, not blindly follow the authors thoughts. Huck Finn made me want to read more. I’m thinking about reading uncle toms cabin because I read huck Finn.
ReplyDelete